Why take the minister to court?
Accountability. There’s a section in the norms and standards...
Which she’s ignored, so what’s the point?
For us to have definite timelines for the department to rid itself of bad infrastructure. She committed to a timeline in 2013 whereby schools would have sanitation by 2016.
Do they?
No, not at all.
Has she held MECs to account?
Not at all. She protects them. At a press conference this week she and the Eastern Cape MEC were smiling as if nothing had happened. Nothing has.
Why not?
A lack of will, and the fact that people who occupy high positions in the department don’t know what they’re doing.
Why haven’t you obtained a court order forcing her to get rid of pit toilets, at least?
She disregards the law.
Has she ignored a court order?
When we took her to court for her to adopt the norms and standards, she decided to settle before the court case because she knew the court would order her to adopt them. Part of the agreement was that she committed to implementing them.
Why didn’t you take her to court when she ignored the deadline?
We ’ve seen that the court makes pronouncements and politician have no regard for them.
Shouldn’t she have been chased through the courts?
That’s where we are now. There’s a lot of litigation coming up. So now she’s had this urgent meeting with her MECs and officials.
Were you impressed?
No, it was a waste of time. Three hours in a meeting coming up with a plan that should have been implemented in 2016... a farce.
Was it only because the president gave her three months to roll out sanitation that she was seized with a sense of urgency?
Exactly. She was trying to show that she’s doing something about the mess she has created.
Less concerned about the school children than about being fired?
Absolutely. For the minister and MECs it’s all about political grandstanding. But also about the relationship that exists outside of government... Mathole Motshekga [the minister’s husband] was one of Ramaphosa’s chief campaigners... She was never going to be fired. She was just acting like she was doing something.
What kind of minister needs to be instructed to do an audit of pit toilets, after all that’s happened?
An incompetent minister.
Has she really not done an audit?
The last report released by her was in January. That for us was an audit report.
So why is the president instructing her to do an audit?
We don’t know. All the information is there, she just needs to make it publicly available.
Is the president himself grandstanding?
He is grandstanding because there is a public outcry about this matter. He must know, the people around him must know, that there is already data available for us to know how many schools need proper sanitation...